when the great unwashed, uneducated, unsophisticated programmer was programming the station, the great unwashed, uneducated, unsophisticated listening audience was well-served.

then the “eagle-friendly” meeting took place (consultant and mgmt were culprits), the free-fall began.

let’s see if 3.3 is the bottom.

You say that your stations are doing well in the survey–I never said you weren’t–I just stated that you weren’t the #1 Cluster–once again, a fact you have YET to admit to.

As for selling Eastlan vs. Arbitron, there are advantages both ways, and yes, you are correct that selling agency is almost impossible using Eastlan alone. But I never said anything to suggest otherwise…so once again, I don’t get why you hint that I somehow don’t understand radio sales and surveys. I have almost two decades of experience and dare say I understand it as well as just about anyone.

You say that I have a personal dislike for Locally Owned, and to be totally honest, I really don’t. I have several friends who work there–including a relative. I have a TON of respect for pretty much everyone I know that works there (I don’t know all of them, though). Also, as for getting results, once again I never suggested you didn’t. And as far as that goes, ALL stations claim the same thing, and for the most part, it’s true. We ALL hear it all the time from clients. The fact of the matter is every station has listeners, and each one fills a nich for a specific audience. I’ve worked at a LOT of stations, and every one of them have claimed results for their customers. EVERY ONE.

If I had gone and said that MY station was #1 when it wasn’t, I’d get called on the carpet BIG time–and I’d deserve it. I’m just asking for honesty is all. To be 100% clear here, I wasn’t harping on Locally Owned. Either way, I’m tiring of having to explain what I have already written over and over again. If you want to know what I wrote, read my original post, cuz I’m done responding and defending what I really don’t need to defend in the first place. I wasn’t the one making statements that couldn’t be proven.

I ALSO have noticed the alarming fact that the stations that do NOT buy the Arbitron Survey tend to be ignored, and/or show up WAY below expectations. What regularly happens to KSOP & KDYL is a PERFECT example of this…does anybody really believe that KSOP is non-existent in the ratings…? Really?? In fact as long as I’ve been IN radio, it’s been kind of an inside joke that buying the survey was — at the very least — insurance that you’d make a showing…not ALL stations will vocally admit this, but having worked at several, I KNOW for a fact they do.

Its a double-standard I know. It isn’t fair…and the fact that survey’s as they are conducted at the moment aren’t very accurate–it sucks, but it’s true. Stations with loyal listeners who work 9-5 aren’t necessarily home when a call comes through, and younger demo’s have mobile phones, whose numbers aren’t generally available to ANY company who does survey’s that way. BUT–it’s the best we have and we have to make do ’til something better comes along–and it will…I just don’t know how long we’ll have to wait ’til it does. Oh, and those who live BY the numbers tend to also DIE by the numbers…we’ve all heard that before, but it is SO true. Good Sales People rarely use the survey’s, and those who rely too much on them eventually suffer when a book comes along that doesn’t show them as well…

I just remembered why I haven’t been to this site in three years…

First: Most of the ratings numbers are spun to each individual station’s advantage. It reminds me of push-polling done by political entities to show that their candidate is on top.

Second: While Eastlan might have been a viable source in the past, I place little confidence in the service now. It is a P.O.S. The survey is conducted on 24 hour recall and is conducted via phone. It is a killer for the 12-35 demos where everyone has cell phones.

The market has a 20-25% Hispanic population which is not even taken into consideration by Eastlan. We’ve been on the air 9 years and never included in their survey.

Third: Like it or not, Locally Owned has elevated national attention on our market by bringing in Arbitron. We are now considered to be “ranked” and are looked to be higher than even the IF-Poky market. I have been able to get some great services on barter that I couldn’t get before Arbitron hit the market, because we never showed up on Eastlan.

Yes, it is an expensive survey and a killer for most of the groups, but to a certain degree, we’ve all benefitted.

What I don’t want to see is Arbitron distortion, such as in the Salt Lake market. KSOP, KDYL and a few other stations NEVER show up in the survey because they didn’t buy it. Now that is bogus!

We also know there are many limitations to Arbitron, but I think some might be solved in the next decade with the People Meter. And we all know of somebody who in the past who has either worked in the industry or who has friends who fill out a bogus diary. (Not in this market, but I did know of someone 15 years ago who did in SLC.)

There are indications that the founder of the old Birch service is looking at starting a new national service again. That is where I would place my money if I were a small market group owner.

Reagardless of the ratings and the spin, Jeff alluded to the fact that if you can create traffic and business for a client, who cares if you have a 20.7 or a .6? That’s really the bottom line of anything. You claim you are more “well-endowed” ratings wise than you are but never get results for the client. (Not referring to anyone in particular here.)

I have worked for stations with and without ratings, but it all boils down to the aforementioned point.

Thanks for allowing me to pontificate with my .02 cents worth of hot air!

There is a far cry from being Fairly Dominant to being the #1 Cluster in the Market as you claim.

You are correct, the Lee’s did not buy the Arbitron…but if that money came out of YOUR pocket, for the return it gave, I dare say very few businesses without endlessly deep pockets would throw money at Arbitron, either.

FYI Eastlan is used in the Magic Valley as much to sell as Arbitron, more if you average out the last several years…here’s what I want you to do: tell Clients that have been sold based ON Eastlan stats in the past that Locally Owned wasn’t using a ‘Real Survey’ and see how well that goes. Good sales people make great effort to NOT sell using the ratings anyway–but that doesn’t negate the fact that those IN the stations DO pay attention to the results.

Gap DID beat Locally Owned…something I noticed you failed to admit to.